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Java Developer : Article

Linux Viewpoint: Sun Shows Its True Colors, Says Groklaw's "PJ"

Linux Viewpoint: Sun Shows Its True Colors, Says Groklaw's "PJ"

If you are still in doubt as to Sun's plans for the future, particularly its relationship with Open Source and the GPL, you will find an eWeek interview with Jonathan Schwartz helpful. Here's part of what he said:

"Should we license technology from Microsoft, it would clearly advance the interests, for example, of the Java Desktop System, and if that's running on Linux, then that obviously helps the underlying Linux community as well as the overall growth and viability of open-source technology.

"Just remember, ....RealPlayer's not open-source, but its availability certainly enhances the value of our Java Desktop System.

"There is work done in the open-source community to advance StarOffice, but certainly Sun stands behind and indemnifies StarOffice. To the extent that we license protocols from Microsoft, we would be including them in StarOffice-and not obviously distributing them free of charge-just as we do today with RealPlayer.

"There is nothing that precludes us from taking the protocols we license from Microsoft and incorporating them into our products. Now, where those products run is up to Sun. So, if we take a license from Microsoft, there's nothing that precludes us from incorporating that technology into our Java Desktop System. "

So there you have it. It looks like Sun is indeed going to re-run Caldera, right down to creating a Linux distro (Java Desktop) with lots of proprietary addons in an attempt to enforce per-seat/per-employee licensing. Deja vu all over again. And it hopes we will all be foolish enough to not care about the GPL and thus forsake Red Hat and SuSE, etc. Dream on, Sun, dream on. The real question is, when that fails, then what will Sun do?

Schwartz attacks Red Hat:

"It's a naive analysis of the open-source community that says it's all about forking over source code. It's not—it's about building community, about making investments in marketing, in developing technologies that run on, with and through the open-source community. We have a very long history of working with the open-source community.

"Despite some of our peers in the industry who hire people with titles like evangelist, our folks have titles like developer and architect, and they go work with the open-source community to build technologies and solutions that solve customers' problems.

"I would point back to the Java Desktop System as evidence of the work we've done with the GNOME community, the Mozilla community and the Linux community to really bring products to market that don't just add more lumps of source code into the source tree but deliver value to customers so that they want to inject money into an ecosystem and make it self-sustaining and profitable."

Sick to your stomach yet? He doesn't mind Novell, he says on page two, because he and Microsoft share a common view, and he thinks competition is a good thing:

"Novell's participation in the market is a good thing, because it validates the market as creating an opportunity for more than simply one company. So, I welcome the competition. To us, it's really emblematic of the nature of the relationship we have with Microsoft, which is a deeply held belief that a rising tide lifts all boats, and that interoperability between Sun and Microsoft grows the overall market for both of our products rather than advantages one company versus another."

Microsoft? That Microsoft? The one twice found guilty of antitrust violations? That Microsoft believes that a rising tide lifts all boats? Is Sun in for a shock someday.

He is totally into DRM, and authentication, and autoupdate, and it's all about market share. Here is a hint as to how to block them, should you care to:

"So, with interoperability and a focus on ease of use, we're trying to use both StarOffice as well as Java Studio Creator to create a broader market opportunity and add interoperability to that mix. It's about growing the largest market possible, trying to help build the biggest tent atop all the developers in the world rather than forcing people to go make choices that may preclude their opportunities. . . .So, I am very convinced, with Steve, that he who has the most customers—and I would just add developers into that—is ultimately going to be the long-term winner. "

They don't have the biggest tent if developers stay away. And if you are in the mood to throw up, here's a couple of sentences that just might do it:

"We're going back to pub-sub, and we're moving away from a concept of 'I'm going to go to a Web site and pick up content.' The pull model of computing—the days are numbered. . . . At the end of the day, that's great [Sun's competition with Microsoft] for customers. The fact that we're committed to interoperability means either choice is a safe choice. We're very bullish on the future of the network and very bullish on the future of intellectual property in open source as well as in open standards to continue to drive that opportunity."

Excuse me? The "future of intellectual property in open source"? We certainly can't complain that they were confusing or schizo here. It's plain as day. It's going after Red Hat. It doesn't support the GPL. It will push open standards as being what you really want, not open source. Sun thinks  that we won't care, as long as it's easy and fun. Itintends to be the substitute for free/open source software. Here you go: Brand X Linux. And it intends to destroy the Internet. If you think that sounds wonderful, stop and consider that if Sun gets its way, there would never be a Groklaw. Microsoft never did get the Internet. It thinks all we want to do is buy stuff. So, that's their plan, Stan.

I had a chance to take a look at Sun's Java Desktop evaluation CD, thanks to a friend who used to be a Java developer, until he got the CD and noticed the same thing I noticed when I tried it. First, there isn't any sign on the cover that there is anything GPL inside, even though there is plenty. It does mention Linux and the GPL VERY briefly in the command window during bootup, but it is so brief, unless you were paying very close attention, you could easily miss it. There is also a rather draconian EULA as you boot into the system that mentions absolutely nothing about the GPL anywhere and expressly forbids you from making copies of the CD. There is a brief mention of a third-party licenses directory in the EULA text. You really could get the CD and run it without ever knowing it had anything GNU/Linuxy in it or that the GPL provides you with guaranteed freedoms that Sun would like you not to know you have. My friend tells me he will no longer do any Java development. He was about to recommend to his boss that they do some Java Desktops, but now he intends to recommend only a distro that acknowledges its roots.

Are you convinced yet, all you folks who send me e-mail about how Sun really is supportive of the Open Source community? Not yet? Then how about this article in eWeek, where Schwartz calls Red Hat a "proprietary" Linux? He says they forked and now CIOs are noticing that "Red Hat has pretty much forked the distribution" so now they realize "open source does not equal open standards. Open standards, which Sun has always supported, are better. Proprietary open source [like RHEL] can come back and bite you."

Naturally, Red Hat responds, and so does Linus and neither agrees with Sun:

"Informed of the comments, Red Hat spokesman Leigh Day offered that 'Red Hat Enterprise Linux is licensed under the GPL, and we're totally open source.'

'"[Red Hat is] not proprietary,' Day continued. 'We are fully committed to open source and our code reflects that. Red Hat has no proprietary software built in our distribution. Our core strategy is built on open source and we will not deviate from that strategy.' . . .

"In addition, Linus Torvalds, Linux's founder, considers Red Hat Linux to be Linux. 'Sure, RH definitely has their own vendor kernel, but it's not proprietary, and a number of the top Linux kernel contributors are Red Hat employees,' Torvalds said."

Time to think about OpenOffice and Sun pulling a SCO someday, gang. Remember that patent they put into their Linux distro, Mad Hatter? Time to think. It is thinking, but in old-fashioned ways, about mo' money, and it will fail there too, of course. Sun has made its choice and opted for The Way Things Used To Be. It's a new world, and Sun is not in it.

More Stories By Pamela Jones

Known to millions of online readers as "PJ," Pamela Jones is the editor and moderator of Groklaw. They also know her as the heart of the open-source community's legal battle against litigation aimed at the Linux kernel and other free and open-source software.

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Most Recent Comments
Anon 04/27/04 09:58:04 PM EDT

I'm supposed to be sick to my stomach because they're attacking redHat? Please! The RedHat that won't even follow LSB? The RedHat that always uses its linux dominance to do whatever the hell it pleases? I sincerely hope Sun uses SuSE to crush RedHat!

me 04/27/04 09:24:23 PM EDT

This is excellent reporting, the fact the sun would get in bed with microsoft was unnerving enough and hinted at it's intent but this really flushes it out. They seem to be trying to pull an apple, using an OSS base and a proprietary shell, and while this in and of itself isn't really that bad it diverts the flow of OSS. I guess Novell is doing the same thing by throwing netware on top of linux. I guess the question is not only how much you give back, and one could argue that all these companies have been fairly supportive, but whether you are going to fight for a level playing field in this industry. That almost certainly includes open source protocols and formats, and perhaps this is where sun has ultimately transgressed. Without this article i would think that they had just chosen to drink the microsoft koolaid for a few billion dollars, but from this article it seems clear that sun has had this idea for a while. Can't any of these companies resist the faustian temptation of vendor lockin caused by proprietary and patent encumbered documents and protocols? I personally have been bitten by this disease more times than I can count, and frankly I will always choose the company that avoids it because vendor lockin is guaranteed to hose you, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but soon and the rest of your life.

Rob 04/27/04 09:16:34 PM EDT

Per seat licensing? This sounds just like RedHat ES/WS. Why love RedHat and bash on Sun when they are both doing the same thing.

Roberto J. Dohnert 04/27/04 09:16:03 PM EDT

I didn't take Suns comments on Red Hat as an attack because I agreed with Schwartz on many of his views on Red Hat. Red Hat is a very confusing entity and right now they basically produce their own kernel regardless of what they do with the code it is still very different from the standard Linux kernel this is what caused UNIX to fork in the past. The JDS is not a Linux distribution, JDS is the set of applications that run on top of the kernel, GNOME, Evolution, Mozilla and YaST as the update manager. Sun is working on a Solaris version of the JDS, the reason why they released the Linux version first was because they had to get the device driver code from SCO for x86. As proprietary software developers Sun and Microsoft do have to worry about intellectual property and they shouldnt be persecuted or flamed because they dont wish to Open Source their product line. Sun should take that as a compliment that JDS is not to Linuxy because that is what they are aiming for. Sun does alot for the Open Source community and they contribute a lot to Open Source, PJ's friend can do what he wishes but I personally will still support Java, C# and Linux wherever its a perfect fit. JDS is a good distribution, while I may disagree with the EULA, Sun still abides by the GPL and thus I see nothing wrong with the way they choose to do business just like Red Hat decides how it wishes to do business by forking Linux and creating their own kernel. And PJ says that " It's a new world, and Sun is not in it. " Sun and Microsoft will do as Novell did, they will learn to adapt and prosper and I dont think the world will ever be 100% Sun free or 100% Microsoft free and the people that do think this way need a very serious wake up call. Now please do keep in mind that I am not bashing PJ, I like Pamela and have corresponded with her on several occasions and have respect for her contribution through Groklaw and for her. But, interoperability is key to innovation and for enhancing Linux's well being in the marketplace.

Seth Leigh 04/27/04 08:46:42 PM EDT

In reply to IBMbeatsSun and his comment that "IBM openly promotes GNU/Linux, while Sun has been careful to avoid mentioning it in their desktop product(s)." I would like to point out that IBM sells servers, desktop machines, and laptops with Microsoft Windows on them. IBM is far, far more "in bed" with Microsoft than Sun ever will be.

Please keep in mind that Sun's "capitulation" to Microsoft came with MS agreeing to pay Sun nearly $2billion in cash. I'm inclined to believe MS capitulated to Sun, not vice versa. With respect to the agreements Sun has entered into with MS, note that Sun has not decided, unlike HP and IBM, to be box-pushers reselling Microsoft Windows to customers. Sun wants to sell Solaris and Linux to customers. If a customer will only buy Solaris or Linux if they can interoperate with Windows, then Sun is very, very smart to enter into agreements with MS to help guarantee interoperability.

Please remember, at the end of the day, Sun will not be selling Windows machines. These agreements are all about helping Sun sell more Unix and Linux. It's Solaris or Linux, or bust. Please go back to IBM and HP and find out just how in bed with Microsoft these companies are before hurling anti-Microsoft zealoutry stones at Sun.

Terrence Martn 04/27/04 08:46:11 PM EDT

To Phillip Holmes: The GPL FAQ specifically states that you must include a copy of the GPL license with the program. The GPL also specifically prohibits the restriction of distribution of GPL'd code by NDA or other restrictions. It would be a good idea from a legal standpoint for Sun to acknowledge the GPL on install (as many programs do) so as to avoid themselves violating the license and having their rights to distribute GPL'd code removed.

To JDB: Interesting you bring up the Linksys router since Linksys was the target of a letter from the Netfilter teams lawyers which required them to bring their product into compliance with the GPL since originally they were not. So while the original products may not have acknowledged the GPL future ones will certainly acknowledge the GPL and it is worth noting that the Linksys website presents their GPL code center in a easy to see link on their firmware download page. Several other companies also were sent letters and all complied except one, and that one had a preliminary injunction placed on it, it has since moved to comply with the terms of the GPL. It is great that someone is making money around Linux, I certainly do, however I also comply with the letter of the GPL when I distribute GPL'd binaries. From Sun's statements it does not look like they have read the GPL very carefully.

As to the value of the GPL to regular people it is worth noting that you can download an enhanced firmware for a WRT54G with addition features, thanks to release of the firmware source, as required under the GPL. Of course Linksys has every right to re-incorporate those changes back into their official firmware to enhance their own product line. Talk about tangible benefits from working with the FOSS community to both customers, and to Linksys(Cisco).

To Simon Anderson: You sir are a twit. Pamela Jones has created the single most valuable resource for legal issues surrounding FOSS. She has create a nexus to which the Open Source communitty can contribute to combat the excesses of organizations like SCO that want to attack the businesses, users and community create around FOSS. She has pioneered the use of the Open Source model to law and has been highly successful proving that the success of Open Source principles transcend software. In my opinion she has contributed more in the last year to OpenSource than Sun ever has, or from what I have seen, ever will.

tim carmean 04/27/04 08:29:33 PM EDT

Not once did I see a notice that my Linksys router runs on a Linux kernel. When playing with a friend's Tivo I never saw a mention of its GNU/Linux roots. Who cares? They both *work*. I know they run Linux b/c I'm a big geek. Most people couldn't care less, and that's they way it should be. Above all, I'm pleased to see a company making money by building a product based on the Linux kernel.

While I can't speak on the linksys router, the tivo has an entire copy of the GPL printed right in the manual (even in the front iirc). Assuming I am reading the following correctly if you use GPL code you have to publish the GPL (and other licenses) in a conspicuous fashion:

1. You may copy and distribute verbatim copies of the Program's source code as you receive it, in any medium, provided that you conspicuously and appropriately publish on each copy an appropriate copyright notice and disclaimer of warranty; keep intact all the notices that refer to this License and to the absence of any warranty; and give any other recipients of the Program a copy of this License along with the Program.

Now I don't have a copy of the Operating System in question, but if the situation is as PJ stated, then it sounds pretty shady to me. Maybe not "illegal" but shady nonetheless.

Obviously IANAL so, your milage may vary, some assembly required, batteries not included, and offer void in Utah.

Have a nice day!

Derry Bryson 04/27/04 08:21:45 PM EDT

PJ, I think you're way off base here and you are letting your disgust of SCO cloud your judgement. You seem to be trying to equate Sun with Caldera because they are packaging proprietary (and copy restricted) software along with Linux and then extending that to equate Sun with SCO (since Caldera became SCO) and hence Sun is evil. However, Caldera does not even equate to SCO, much less Sun.

As long as Sun complies with the various licenses, then they are doing nothing wrong. In fact, their use of Linux, XFree86, Gnome, etc. in a commercial product means they are or will be actively helping with the development of those projects.

As others have said, Sun has contributed a great deal to the open source community (and the world in general) including such things as Open Office and NetBeans among many others. Instead of attacking Sun, we should be thanking them for what they have given us.

jdb 04/27/04 08:18:28 PM EDT

Wow, do you guys know who PJ is? She is not out of line and has a huge amount of credibility. I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop since the Sun agreement (capitulation) with Microsoft.

As a long time java developer I'm seriously concerned by what I am seeing with Sun. They are desperate. Desperate companies who control a major technology are scary since they are going to be flailing about to try and figure out a strategy to survive. Java is Sun's compelling technology and they are going to try and leverage it or sell it out to stay alive. Either of those things are bad for everyone.

I hope that IBM is taking note and has started on their open source, clean room Java clone. I suspect that we are going to need it very soon.

BTW, if you want to know who PJ is and the origin of her >15 minutes of fame, do a google search for groklaw.

geekfreek 04/27/04 08:13:50 PM EDT

He - wake up and smell the coffee, sunshine. If Sun ruled the world (or IBM, or ), PCs would still cost $10,000+ apiece, and only be usable by engineers. You penguin lovers are smoking crack as long as you keep thinking Microsoft is the enemy and Sun, IBM, et al are the people's friend. Microsoft has done much more to bring computing to the masses than Linux will ever do. Marriage's of convenience rarely last; looks like this one is starting to fray.

sterno 04/27/04 08:12:46 PM EDT

I'm just trying to figure out if Sun did anything wrong here. Yeah they don't give much credit to the Linux/GPL roots of what they are doing, but who cares? As long as they follow the letter of the GPL law, then if they want to be dicks about it, that's their choice. It's up to their customers to decide if that choice is a good one.

If Sun can create something that's valuable to customers, then good for them. I rather doubt that people who are forsaking Microsoft are going to want to get into another oppressive licensing scheme.

James Hendrickson 04/27/04 08:07:46 PM EDT

Amazing how many closed source code monkey/trolls crawled out of the woodwork on this one. Suns flipflop has sickened me, my only comfort when I think of what a typical corporation they have become, is that they will find out soon enough that cozening up to Microsoft is never a good thing. I respected Sun before they became just another lame hardware company hung up on a programming language that has never been intergal to anything important. Having developed with java, perl and python, I find java to be vastly inferior a language that could literally dissapear and have its niche filled in with another language and have noone miss it.

PJ please keep calling them like you see them. You are a breath of fresh air, all to rare in this sea of morons, corporate toadies, and sun fans still loyal from the time when sun was an innovative interesting company.

Oh and for all of you bitching about how great Sun still is, I hope you still feel the same way when Sun's DRM friendly stance has you doing what "they" want you to do with your computer not what "you" want to do. What a joke fujitsu is building sparcs that outperform suns own.

Bryan Althaus 04/27/04 08:02:14 PM EDT

The only thing worse than a Linux zealot is a GPL zealot!!! Let's face it, in this person's eyes unless Sun does EVERYTHING the way she wants, she's not going to be happy.

Sun (the only major pure UNIX player) backs Linux, puts a professional, commercial desktop together (something that the Linux people have wanted) and trys to sell it to the masses either via WALMART or through company per/person licensing. I'm sorry what's the problem again?

The only reason this got any mention on /. is, well /. == Linux.

TwinGears 04/27/04 08:01:36 PM EDT

Good show, enjoyed the read and the presentation.

IBMvsSun 04/27/04 07:59:58 PM EDT

I have been watching IBM And so far they have played according to the rules and the spirit of the rules.

So right now, they have a good positive balance in my "Faith in IBM" account.

Sun on the other hand have done some good stuff and some not so good stuff. I could still be swayed either way but I currently do not have much faith in Sun.

Time will tell.

IBMbeatsSun 04/27/04 07:58:54 PM EDT

IBM openly promotes GNU/Linux, while Sun has been careful to avoid mentioning it in their desktop product(s).

anon 04/27/04 07:57:29 PM EDT

Sun could very well pull something with OpenOffice.

Contrary to popular belief, OpenOffice is not a "community" effort.
Of the approximately 117 developers actively contributing,
100 are Sun employees, 12 are Ximian employees, and only 5 are from "the community".

Scary, isn't it?

SImon Anderson 04/27/04 07:54:18 PM EDT

You're out of line PJ.

Sun has been a true friend to the F/OSS community for a very long time. While it's true that their friendship has some strings attached, they have built up a whole lot of credit over the years to outweigh the deficit.

You, PJ-come-lately, have not. Enjoy your fifteen minutes.

nbvb 04/27/04 07:53:42 PM EDT

You really could get the CD and run it without ever knowing it had anything GNU/Linuxy in it

Sounds to me like Sun's actually on track to make Linux vaguely usable. Hiding all that crap is exactly what needs to happen if you want someone to actually *use* it.

I heard 10 years ago that Linux was going to take over the world "in a few years". ... still waiting.

Please, it's good for what it is, but it isn't everything to everyone.

joshsnow 04/27/04 07:51:24 PM EDT

'You really could get the CD and run it without ever knowing it had anything GNU/Linuxy in it or that the GPL provides you with guaranteed freedoms that Sun would like you not to know you have.'

I'm just too old for all of this misguided zealotry. Sun and Java are one of the (many) reasons Linux based systems are making such tremendous inroads into corporate-land.

And lest we all forget, winning corporates means winning mind-share. Winning mindshare means linux based systems become more of a de facto standad everywhere.

I quite understand why sun wish to leverage Java and Linux - it's a magic combination. I can't understand why the author of the article wishes to leverage this tired, old zealotry.

re: Seth Leigh 04/27/04 07:48:56 PM EDT

One example is folks who scream bloody murder when a company uses some GPL software and doesn't "give back"

You've remarkably managed to bring your competency into question all on your own. Congratulations!

I see no need for anyone to respond to you as you lack the required knowledge of subject matter for fruitful discussion.

Sun = Wounded dog 04/27/04 07:48:15 PM EDT

I agree that Sun is in a tight spot.

And we see them thrashing about trying to remain relevant in a world where their core product has been displaced by one that is free (beer and speech) and superior even on their own hardware. Java was a truly innovative idea, and
marrying it to the web browser got them exposure and market inertia that has kept the company alive.

but it is not enough by itself. Sun was always a UNIX company but that rug has been pulled.

I feel bad for the position Sun is in, but I am not dumb enough to think the wounded dog won't bite me if I stray too close.

JDB 04/27/04 07:44:56 PM EDT

Not once did I see a notice that my Linksys router runs on a Linux kernel. When playing with a friend's Tivo I never saw a mention of its GNU/Linux roots. Who cares? They both *work*. I know they run Linux b/c I'm a big geek. Most people couldn't care less, and that's they way it should be. Above all, I'm pleased to see a company making money by building a product based on the Linux kernel.

ashelton 04/27/04 07:43:17 PM EDT

Solid article. Simply by highlighting some of what they say PJ has allowed the essence of their argument to come through, and it sounds pretty repulsive to me. Hilariously inept too, if they seriously think either the mass market or the hacker market is going to follow Sun they've got to be downright insane. And to expect a happy smiling future with microsoft is delusional.

I don't think PJ's point is whether or not they have broken the legal wording of the GPL, but that they have certainly missed the intent. And that as a result they'll fit in neither market, not supported by the free software people and not real competition to windows. Exactly the position Caldera ended up in.

joelparker 04/27/04 07:42:21 PM EDT

Sun puts lots of money and research into free tools,
some big examples being Java and Open Office.
Sun is also now among the largest Linux success stories,
selling a million new Linux installations to China,
and even more amazingly to consumers at Wal-Mart.

Does it matter if the CD says "GNU" or "Linux inside"
to the Chinese, or Wal-Martese, or end user?
Likely not. As long as Sun honors the GPL--
and Sun does seem to be honoring the GPL--
then how about looking at the positive side?

More Linux installations will lead to better
succes for all of us. I want to see easy installs,
good video drivers, plug-and-play printers, and more.
Sun's success will help us get this, so cheers to them.

Seth Leigh 04/27/04 07:33:11 PM EDT

I find it hilarious that folks can be so dogmatic about the GPL. They'll demand ultimate "freedom" with the GPL and then complain, bitch, whine, and moan when somebody excercises that freedom in a way with which they disagree. One example is folks who scream bloody murder when a company uses some GPL software and doesn't "give back". Another example is demanding that Sun not use its own brand for its distribution, but rather trumpet Linux and the GPL first and foremost. If you believe in giving others ultimate freedom through the GPL, then don't complain how they use it, as long as they abide by the terms.

As far as Microsoft is concerned, please note that Sun is not selling Windows machines, as IBM and HP are doing. Sun is selling Solaris and Linux. That's commitment. Sun's deal with Microsoft has to do with being able to guarantee interoperability in heterogenous computing environments, which is something Sun's customers are demanding. What's wrong with Sun trying to solve its customers' problems with solutions that will fit into the customers' environments? What Sun is doing, by making their software more interoperable with MS software, is making it possible for Sun to sell more Unix and Linux software to more customers. And this is a bad thing?

Have Used it 04/27/04 07:32:26 PM EDT

Your stoned man. Get what ever it is you have stuck up your backside out. Sun has done an excellent job with JDS. They have also contribued more than any other company that I know of to the open source world. Java, OO, need I go on...

How many jobs around the world have been created because of Sun;s Java...

Take a chill pill man...

closed source programmer 04/27/04 07:29:32 PM EDT

GPL = "Get Programmers Layed-off." "Gosh, Payroll's Lost." "Gut Programming Livelihoods." "Go Pawn Luxuries." "Go Push Lawnmowers." "Grocery Packing for a Living." Sheesh, but I cannot think of more off the top of my head.

TH 04/27/04 07:27:55 PM EDT

Whine whine whine. JDS is aimed at end users who DON'T CARE that it's Linux and WOULD NOT KNOW what 'GPL' means.

Companies try to make money. Maybe Sun isn't the most community-friendly company out there, but there are plenty who are worse. And end users seem to like JDS.

This is just one long whiny article written outside the bounds of the author's expertise.

Phillip Holmes 04/27/04 07:19:31 PM EDT

Where in the GPL does it state that if you use GPL-licensed code, you have to publicly state that you are. As long as you follow the license agreement, you are following the GPL.